The server economies underlying issues

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  • #26233
    dagersh
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    So from time to time forums posts have arisen with people complaining about the state of the economy on the server with  solutions given but they font have the proper affect for a number of reasons so I just wanna toss my hat into the mix with a different approach. Immediately everyone assumes that the economy does not function properly because of the fact that most warps are bandit havens and that stops players from buying goods but I am going to refute that point and state a new one. What pirate craft has allowed us to see is an economic model at work. Because of the structure of this economic model and the fact that we are playing on a server in a video game certain restrictions and reservations apply to how we view the server economy in action. This economic model on this server resembles the macroeconomic system of “laizze-faire” capitalism otherwise known as trickle down economics. I will use this term loosely as the server has plenty of other types of trading by the nature of the game so before people start thinking “what about bartering etc” let me get my points in. In the following paragraphs I will attempt to dissect what the underlying problems are plaguing the economy and attempt to leave some form of a outline to how each may be resolved.

    1. Locked up balances

    This server has hundreds of active and inactive/banned members which balances range greatly in size so the exact number for currency in circulation can never be truly known. With that point being made what are “locked up balances” if you look at the server behemoths money wise on the top 10 list what is the most striking besides the sums of money? that  four out of ten of the top balances on the server are inactive. Too add on to that sentiment two of the top ten are banned and as I will state later in my case only one person( conservatively) possibly two contribute their money to the server economy. Lets look at the bans first, Saraphim7 and Kingkarim after being banned from the server left a sum of money equaling 479,826. That is a huge some of money that is locked up and will in the forceable future not be reinvested back into the economy. What is the problem with that? the problem lies within the fact that that was money spent by players for resources that is not being reinvested because of the ban leaving the server with a net loss of income into the economy. Out of the rest of the players on the top ten list four out of ten have been inactive long enough so that there presence is not relevant beyond the fact that there combined balances are 252,968. That is less than the banned behemoths but is still an extremely large chunk of the server currency in limbo. This leaves two more players that I have marked as “holding” meaning there balance is not going to be used in the forceable future for economic repair but it will be used with a total worth of 118,433. What that leaves us with is two players that have shown an attempt to help the economy in there varying ways with a combined balance of 287,929. Now what do we do with these raw numbers? This shows us that the combined amount of server cash locked up is 851,227. This is money that will most likely never be used again and in some cases cant. The fact that these balances were allowed to swell to these sizes means that if the server is following the path of trickle down economics is that these balances kept by these individuals would be reinvested. Without this reinvestment we get stagnation as the combined inactivity with the holed up cash leaves to prices that dont reflect the need of the market. The fact of the matter is that this 851,227 is a roadblock on the path to move the economy forward because and shows us very clearly where the money on the server is being sucked in and stuck. Every future trade has to move around this number making it harder for the economy to pick up pace because the damage has already been done.

    2. Monopolies and warps

    Within the server there are _ warps that are owned by players on the server. They are supposed to be places of commerce and can still be with the idea that “pirating” causes a loss of business being a side effect of a larger issue that is not being resolved. Out of a total of five player owned warps on the server two are almost completely inactive while another two are getting close leaving two more shops that function. Now the problem here lies on a bed of simplicity that is not being resolved. These shops need new owners that are more active. Now how this will go about im not sure and I will not go into on this post but the problem exists and the solution is clear. The active warps have owners that look at the economy and attempt to meet its demands. Kelly Yore is a prime example of someone who honestly checks the value of items to change his prices close to daily. That is good and all but that is one person and one warp. The problem would be easier to solve if the players owning these warps didn’t also fall into the locked up balances but this is not a coincidence. The owners of warp wolf, market and the collaboration of cts have not in any sort of way updated there shops to meet consumer demands. Market does still have some active shop keepers but very little and “piracy” has been used as the scapegoat for these issues. These warps are littered with out of stock signs and signs that have been not updated to see consumer demand. This inactivity combined with the locked up balances leads to piracy because these warps become useless. Why is there little to no killing at shop and food? because they are valuable warps and the active owners still have sway when it comes to people adhering to the player made rules. I haven’t mentioned trade up until this point but it still falls under the earlier sphere. Bislo has attempted to make the warp relevant again( buying up resources changing some sell signs) but it is unsustainable as most of the rest of the warp is dead which leaves them as nothing more but bandit territory. If these warps held valuable trades worth protecting then they would be protected. This isnt a crazy concept but people want to overlook it and just say player attacks are the leading problem. This failed system of inactive players combined with their inactive warps is what leads to economic decline and increased piracy. The solution to this problem is tough and im not gonna try and create a coherent one now but people seem to not understand the underlying factors in what causes economic decay.

    3. trickle down and macro economics

    Since the server took the route of trickle down by the nature of the game theoretically anyone can become just as rich with enough labor, but with that idea what is the point of an economy then? the economy is there for alternative routes than just mining or grinding and the lack there off leads to a more fractured system. Its hard to not advocate for a stable server shop with shifting prices but that is what my inclination is. Without proper “regulation” and adjustment to the way assets and warps are handled this can never change. My over arching point is, is that trickle down economics does not function in this type of environment. We cant change the fact that diamonds now go for 15-25 dollars a peice and frankly ideas such as iamthereapers of just leaving up high prices isn’t solving any problem. The nature of the game is that anyone can collect these resources and that has to be taken into consideration when setting prices but it hasn’t. In a twist of irony the fact that the server has such an unregulated and open economy has left the it as the second option to bartering and direct trading. The point of this bullet is to show the need for a shift from “laisse faire” to a more Keynesian form of economics in which the staff stimulates economic growth for the larger segment of the player base.

    4. The difficulty of the solutions

    When looking at these problems the solutions can seem easy “lets just throw money at players and give the warps new owners” seems to be the general consensus but that cant help in the slightest. I want to make it clear that the distribution of wealth is not a solution that works long term. The problem to a real solution lies in the fact that its gonna take a helluva lot of work to get the economy going again that is a daunting task for anyone. The staff already has enough on their plates and adding more isnt going to help but this issue needs to be addressed. These locked up assets need to be looked at, warps have to find a way to keep being updated, because the natural stagnation that comes with a fluid player base leads to this kind of slow down and sluggishness. The best possible solution that can minimize this problem but has been disregarded because of the basis of the idea is a server run shop. Now people usually stop at that idea and start thinking “pay to win” “unfair” “broken” but the solid argument hasnt been made against it. Look at real world examples, in the United States alone produce are bought by the government en bulk allowing for more production and subsidies are given to continue this growth. A server shop that is kept within reason and that can be updates by our fairly active and definitely engaged staff could allow players to bypass these dead warps until an actual solution is devised. I am not advocating a completely server side economy but something is needed until this benign mass of cash and warps are fixed.

    Conclusion

    Solving a problem on this scale is no where close to going to be solved easily. I understand that the staff have wanted to deal with this problem and probably know information I dont but the point is is that a majority of the player base dont seem to comprehend where the problems lie. I just hope that this post can help enlighten some aspects of the servers economic problems that haven’t been discussed openly before. Im not leaving a solid solution in place partially because frankly I dont think one can be made over night and I want an active discussion in the comments made about how to solve this problem. This post does not address all the problems in the economy because I simply cant think of them all! so please comment I want to know what else I should take into consideration!

    (side note, sorry about any missing information ill try to write a more concise piece at a later date)

    Punching baby seals since before it was fun.

    #26234
    Crazy Pirate
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    I agree completely with how money is almost locked away, although I don’t really see a way to bring it back into the economy without causing massive deflation. Perhaps invest the money in food shops outside spawn, that give away near enough free food to deckhands? 😛

    #26235
    dagersh
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    deflation can be a problem which i why giving money away doesnt solve the underlying problem 😛 but food shops goes to the point that more active markets are needed

    Punching baby seals since before it was fun.

    #26236
    Palmerageddon
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    My god, everyone who has only read half of this, read it when having breakfast.

     

    Much Much easier to read then.

    #26242
    OfficialRS
    Member
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    Wow that is really long. I just couldn’t read all of it. So when people talk about the economy and deflation, inflation ect… I normally picture a country taking out a loan from another country but obviously that doesn’t happen here. I mean if the economy fails or whatever it just means that perhaps shop owners can’t restock their shops but if your could get money from /sellclaimblocks then perhaps all the money can begin their.

    Also deflation is basically an non-existant problem like I guess technically that I am unemployed on this server and I still get by and if prices for everything go higher or lower then that rather benefits the consumer or the seller. And with that money the seller can now use to restock stuff.

    And the locked up money thing I kinda understand that, all that money wasted, it servers no purpose now. But how do you propose we solve this (You may have explained this but I couldn’t read the whole thing). We can’t just give out excess amounts of money to people nor merchants, if a warp owner got that much they may just close down since they got all the money they could need. (I might be wrong idk)

    But I hear the server economy topic a lot within game and I have never understood it so could someone explain this idea 😛

    ToxicKingRS,

    Leader of the Verussian Empire and the country Verussia.

    #26246
    GodsDead
    Keymaster
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    1. A few of the banned players balances were wiped, they don’t show up on the Stats web UI as they would need to log in for the stats to update to their current balance, which they cant do as they are banned.
    2. I have posted many times around the forums that I have a plan to re-do eco in a major way, I wish you were patient and waited for this to actually happen.
    3. Player warps are a legacy feature that I kindly left untouched, they are dealt with by my #2 statement (again, patience)
    4. Economy was never intended to be part of Minecraft, otherwise it would have been baked in. I was never was a fan of it and would have preferred never to have one, Only after caving in to peoples requests for a monetary system I enabled our extremely basic Eco. Your Bullet point 3 is entirely unrealistic, what you are asking for are set prices on items which fluctuate based on demand, this requires setting a solid base price on every single item in minecraft, this is a terrible method that I have seen destroy servers. If I grow some carrots, It should be up to me to put whatever price I want on them.
    5. #4 That is not the obvious answer at all, nobody at all thinks that distributing wealth is a “fix”, the “locked up assets” have been destroyed as I have already said, again this will be fixed with my plans from my point 2.
    6. Be patient, this thread will be irrelevant as soon as my ideas are live.
    #26261
    The Queen
    Member
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    Well dang… Gods just shut this down lol

    Mother and soul protector of the Elven Empire

    #26273
    Calliemav
    Moderator
    • Topics: 5
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    • Total: 57
    • ★★★

    Would simply like to say a couple quick things.

    A player shop can be set up ANYWHERE.This includes outside of warps. With this being said. The fact player warps go stagnant really shouldn’t limit player shops or players having ways to make money.  Make a new town or port to open trade. Use the ships to help with transport and you can advertise in various ways.

    Placing the blame of lack luster economic situation due to general lack of effort and know how on a few banned players balances and some old warps does nothing.

    Simply put the option to create shops and places to do business is there,use it.

    The fact the Cove has admin shops for players to sell logs and players can sell claims blocks they gain by simply being online means there is limitless money potential. The reason these players with high balances have them, they work for it,hard.

     

    ~Meow~

    #26278
    koi0001
    Member
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    • ★★★★★

    this is a lot of typing and I am sure valid points are in there but honestly I don’t see how people think the eco is bad at all right now honestly I think it works fine

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