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  • #53675
    Xeron
    Blocked
    • Topics: 94
    • Replies: 650
    • Total: 744
    • ★★★★★★


    Server Economics vs Real Life Economics

    Yes people, I’m back at it again! It’s been 4 months since my last post, some stuff has changed (I’ll cover that at the end), but what I’m here for today is to talk much more about the structure of the market on the server, and put forth a few suggestions for the future. If you want a bit more general information I recommend reading my last post (https://piratemc.com/topic/the-piratecraft-economy-and-how-it-works-2/ ). Here we go!

    Fair warning, this is my opinion once more, so feel free to comment or add anything. Trump-approved wall of text incoming, be warned.

    Types of Markets

    Ok so this is a pretty big one that I didn’t cover much in my last post – it doesn’t mean my last post is no longer valid, but it does change a few things. Here is a very brief overview of the types of market. When I talk about the ‘market’, I’m not talking about the whole economy, I’m only talking about a specific part of the economy – such as the market for phones, or for computer games.

    There are 4 main types of market structure:

    • Monopoly – Where there is one big company pretty much runs the entire market. It has so much power in the market; it can set pretty much any price it wants, without losing many customers. Example: Standard Oil – it was owned by John D Rockefeller way back in 1870. It controlled so much of the market, no matter how high the prices were, people kept buying from them as they had few alternatives.
    • Oligopoly – Almost like a monopoly, but this time there are several large firms that control the market. Example: Apple and Samsung in the phone industry. They’re huge companies, each with lots of the market share. Ever wondered why Apple’s phones are so expensive? It’s because they know people will still buy them even if they cost $999.99, because they have that much power in the market.
    • Monopolistic Market – Sounds like a monopoly, but it isn’t. Lots of firms in the market, selling different things, at different prices, but they all have similar amounts of market share. Example: Local restaurants – they’re usually quite a lot in a town, they all serve different things, and they usually get around the same amount of customers.
    • Perfect Competitive Market – This is the weird one of the four. There are tonnes firms in the market, all selling pretty much the same items, at pretty much the same price. Example: Egg companies – eggs are eggs, you can’t really make them very different from one another. If one company starts selling eggs at a higher price, supermarkets will just choose a different company as they have so many companies to choose from.

    Here’s a picture I found online that covers the four markets:

    The type of market structure on Piratecraft

    The ways goods are produced on Piratecraft are all pretty much the same – you either find it, you grow it, or you craft it. The only exception to this is custom items, or items that are unobtainable (such as elytras). Therefore, I will be disregarding the market for these ultra rare items, and instead be focusing on the more genuine items such as stone, potions, and enchanted books.

    The markets on this server are mostly perfectly competitive meaning that everyone who sells stuff is on a level playing field basically. Here are the features for a perfectly competitive market, and I’ll be applying them to the PMC market using Cysteen’s and __plant’s shops as examples.

    • The items in the market are all the same. Whether Cysteen or __plant sell dirt – its exactly the same dirt. Dirt is dirt, you can’t change that. You can’t get ‘premium’ dirt, you can’t get ‘__plant brand dirt’, nor is one dirt better than the other. It’s the same
    • There is nothing stopping you from entering the market. Cysteen has been on much longer than __plant, yet they both have shops. It’s not hard to start selling stuff, all you need is well… stuff… and if possible a shop at /warp shops.
    • Customers have ‘perfect information’. This basically means that we as customers know exactly what we are buying. If I go to Cysteen’s shop and she is selling wool, I know that I’ll be getting wool. An example where this would not be the case is a second-hand car dealership: the dealer may say ‘oh yeah the car is in perfect condition’, but you don’t know that.
    • There are lots of people in the market. This one is a bit ‘meh’. We used to have loads of people selling stuff, especially back when we had player owned warps. Compared to the amount of people on the server, not many have shops. There’s still quite a lot of shops to choose from, just not as many as there theoretically should be (this means that something is preventing people from getting shops, ill get to that later).
    • The customers dictate the prices. If Cysteen increases the price of one of her items, she will lose customers – as they can go elsewhere and buy stuff cheaper very easily. She doesn’t have much power in terms of what something should cost – it depends on the other sellers, and the customers. She has no choice but to sell at the same sort of price as her rivals, otherwise she won’t make any money.

    What effect/difference does it matter?

    Each market has its characteristics that make it either easy, or hard to set a price for an item. If I’m a monopoly (the only person selling an item such as elytras), I can set my price really really high, because I know people will want to buy one. However, if there are loads of other people all selling pretty much the same stuff (perfectly competitive market) it makes it very hard if neigh impossible to set a price for an item.

    In simple terms; if you think prices are too cheap on the server, there is very little you can do. This is why trying to boycott another player’s shop, or buying all of the diamonds to increase their price won’t change much.

    Undercutting 

    Undercutting is where you offer goods or services at a lower price than a competitor. For example, Cys sells stone at $1.50 per stack, but then __plant decides to sell it at $1.40 – to make it cheaper and sell more.

    Undercutting has always been an issue on the server, but it’s the sign of a responsive market (which is a good thing). There is nothing worse than a market that is not changing or adapting – it’s the worst thing in the world, so undercutting can be seen as a good thing.

    But

    It’s a shop owner’s worst nightmare when someone next door sets up a shop, and sells everything just a little bit cheaper. It’s annoying, and you have the right to be annoyed. In real life, this sort of thing is regulated – if firms are consistently undercutting each other, they will be fined and forced to increase their prices. We don’t have that on the server. I’m not saying undercutting is a good thing, or a bad thing. It always happens and it always will happen no matter what.

    A solution to undercutting/price war

    Undercutting isn’t the main issue; it’s the prices of shops in my opinion. I know from reports of several players who own shops that they barely cover their monthly rental costs. It’s cheaper to just sell something privately without a shop – you save yourself hundreds of $$$ every month. If shop prices weren’t so high, players would be more willing to adjust their prices in accordance to demand, rather than to try and make enough money to keep their shop going.

    Basically, instead of selling an item expensively to try and make enough money to cover the costs of your shop, you could sell the item for the equilibrium price (I talked about this in my last post).

    And yes, reducing the prices of shops will probably mean the prices of some items will fall. But at least then the market can adjust naturally, rather than being forced to a price demanded by some shop owners with high shop rents.

    In conclusion… finally

    So basically:

    • The prices on PMC are affected a lot by the prices of shops
    • Its very hard to set a price for a certain good – trying to get diamonds to sell for more is very hard, very very hard
    • Undercutting isn’t great, but it isn’t Satan. It has its benefits too, and the level of undercutting can be reduced by lowering shop prices and getting more people to sell (especially if pvp will be enabled at /warp shops – because it will scare off some customers)

     

    A few suggestions to help the economy/market develop faster

    • As previously mentioned; reduce shop rent prices. If pvp will be enabled at the shops, it will mean less customers – at least less customers that are alive. Reducing the shop prices by around 25% should see a decent amount of getting shops – helping the economy develop faster.
    • Change the layout of /warp shops a bit. Seriously, I’m not joking. Most of the shops players buy is along the main ‘high street’ and the market. The other shops, such as those in the North and East, are almost never rented because they are just too far away from the action of the high street. My using w/e and rotating a few buildings and roads, you could greatly increase the user-friendliness of /warp shops. It’s a 1 hour job with w/e
    • Combine all of the existing warps to the shops into one warp. Along with that, move the warp to the center market place, not the castle – I don’t care about the castle, if it doesn’t sell rum, I don’t care. This modification would go hand-in-hand with the one above. I believe there is currently a poll on the server for this.
    • Have some rum. Rum solves all of your problems.

      I know it was a lot to read, but thanks for at least clicking on here and sparing me 10 minutes of your life. Sorry if it was a bore, it probably was, but I really wanted to get this out there because I wanted to discuss undercutting. And yes i totally stole those memes. Poi

    « Build Team leader »
    « Server Admin »
    Crew History: Red Lotus, 0utlaws, Ottoman Empire, Xenon Empire, The Xanthian Order, The Asylum, Xenia
    @Xeron

    #53629
    GodsDead
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 794
    • Replies: 3344
    • Total: 4138
    • ★★★★★★★★

    The developer released an update today to the plugin with the ticket I made with your video and description with it as “fixed”, I now have this live on the server, so hopefully its fixed.

    [changelog] Anti-cheat updates (Fixed Rivers Rubberbanding), Perms update

    Give it a test.

    #53558
    JoeDanger_
    Member
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 59
    • Total: 66
    • ★★★

    As fair as I know (I could be wrong) the original plan for /warp shops was for it to be pvp free (Except the main building). I agree with Jammin, this would also stop people from tping away and hiding there whenever they see someone disappear on map. Also RS, if it is clearly marked where the pvp free area ends, and states that items will not be returned this shouldn’t really be an issue.

    Founder of The Vikings
    Founder of The Coalition
    Founder of some other stuff
    I don't know what else to put.

    #53545

    In reply to: Update

    GodsDead
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 794
    • Replies: 3344
    • Total: 4138
    • ★★★★★★★★
    GodsDead
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 794
    • Replies: 3344
    • Total: 4138
    • ★★★★★★★★

    I have taken some screens, when warp east was almost done so i will share them here until galaxy gets some that is updated since i dont know how much that have been changed since the pictrues were taken. Also some from when some of the builders had a party after Creeper said we are Done

    These look amazing Taulov! we need a collection for a Blog post!

    One tip, your FOV is set to Quake Pro, Never really works well for screenshots as it looks like a fisheye! Can I use these for a blog post? Ill credit you.

    Also, were always looking for more media staff!

    #53464

    In reply to: Hopper Glitch

    GodsDead
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 794
    • Replies: 3344
    • Total: 4138
    • ★★★★★★★★

    See if this fixed it https://piratemc.com/topic/changelog-maintenece-plugin-swap-bounty-reset/

    Updated spigot.

    There was also an issue with minecarts not being able to go into other chunks. sounds like a server level issue.

    #53447

    In reply to: Post Ya Screenshots!

    AdmiralTrench
    Member
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 70
    • Total: 80
    • ★★★

    Just on top of the Communist World I am helping to build

    Attachments:
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    ☠If my puns don't kill you my lack of effort will☠

    #53423
    Gildor
    Member
    • Topics: 50
    • Replies: 321
    • Total: 371
    • ★★★★★

    I notice that one of the options is specific commands entered. With that, perhaps it would be possible to have a command that can not be entered by players unless they get permission to use the command? This way, we could have an achievement system for visiting places ingame. I imagine a button attached to a command block that gives the person pressing it permission to use a certain command so the player has to physically travel to the location of the command block and press the button to get permission to use this command. The command would then trigger an achievement.

    This would link to an old post I found whilst exploring the forums.(https://piratemc.com/topic/world-wonders-place-of-interest/) Basically, the post describes a system for establishing ingame world wonders. How about starting this up properly and once the wonders have been decided giving an achievement for visiting all of them? This would encourage players to visit interesting places around the world. So, each world wonder gets a command block and command so that once all of the commands have been unlocked and used by players the achievement activates.

    This concept also has potential to be used in other ways. Command blocks could be placed at, for example, all four corners of the map so that an achievement is gained for reaching them. Or every warp could have one so that players are rewarded for visiting them all.

    Disclaimer: I’m not familiar with how a server works at all so if this is impossible then at least it was a nice idea

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Ex Prime Minister of the British Empire

    Crew History: TEE, Delta, Enigma, BE

    #53421
    Xeron
    Blocked
    • Topics: 94
    • Replies: 650
    • Total: 744
    • ★★★★★★

    well 2 days ago a player that said he owned the pack and wasnt event caught using it, probably because he didnt use it and got banned, but thats for staff to decide anyways.

    If that player you are referring to is riccardi48 – I watched him use it a few days ago, and he admitted to have the texturepack installed. The other player I can think of on the top of my head is golden__sword – they admitted to using the texturepack on the server for building purposes. We don’t ban people for having the texturepack, we ban people for actively using it, which he admitted to doing.
    Otherwise, no idea. Staff are told to watch players, which we do, and share any findings.

    Edit: Also, each staff handles things a little differently, but we usually agree on the end result – whether to ban or unban. People always have the option to make a ban appeal, and we keep them open for at least 12 hours so the community can comment/read them, and share opinions, until we make our final decision.

    Pertaining to the actual topic:
    Things are never straight forward, I get that, but I’d like to keep the server as clean as possible. Its not just the new ones who xray, we have also lost some long-term players who thought they could get away. If you start giving the xrayers an option to come back, they’ll just get smarter. Sure some will stop, but we don’t know that. I’d rather be safe and stick to the facts than judge someone by their credibility, sorry.

    « Build Team leader »
    « Server Admin »
    Crew History: Red Lotus, 0utlaws, Ottoman Empire, Xenon Empire, The Xanthian Order, The Asylum, Xenia
    @Xeron

    #53394

    In reply to: riccardi48's ban

    Xeron
    Blocked
    • Topics: 94
    • Replies: 650
    • Total: 744
    • ★★★★★★

    What she said

    If this is true, may I ask how SeussAlmighty was unbanned?

    Not my area of expertise

    « Build Team leader »
    « Server Admin »
    Crew History: Red Lotus, 0utlaws, Ottoman Empire, Xenon Empire, The Xanthian Order, The Asylum, Xenia
    @Xeron

    #53361
    Smokey River
    Moderator
    • Topics: 22
    • Replies: 269
    • Total: 291
    • ★★★★★

    It appears that I will be returning to pirate craft……. I will say I hope everyone has on their big girl panties or has reviewed and knows the butthurt report very well. (link attached :-).

    https://piratemc.com/topic/butt-hurt-and-complaining/</span&gt;

    Needless to say the Ol’ Smokeys back hahahaha get ready you scurvy slums.

    <3
    Smokes

     

     

    ?Smokeyriver?

    I solemnly swear I am up to no good.


    *IF YOU SEE THIS ON YOUR FORUM POST TAKE IT INTO CONSIDERATION*

    -Founder of Crew Savage-
    -Rear Admiral or Super Mod-
    *depends on how you want to view my super powers*

    #53223
    GodsDead
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 794
    • Replies: 3344
    • Total: 4138
    • ★★★★★★★★

    <p>Joshua, if you were a skilled pvper you’d have made a godset right after 2hrs of playtime

    A new player might have skill but not the gear. I am a skilled PvPer but when i first came on i was completely destroyed bye guys in god gear. I do see your point though.

    </p>

    That is very interesting Volpex. Maybe you could write up a quick tutorial to show new players how to get form zero to god gear production in 2 hours. That would certainly be very helpful to them and many experienced players alike. Thanks.

    @oktacraft how long do you think it was till i had my first set :I (like an hour and 45 minutes) I’m just lazy xD

    How can you go from newbie to god armour in that time?

    #53220
    Unic0rnjunk101
    Member
    • Topics: 42
    • Replies: 420
    • Total: 462
    • ★★★★★

    <p>Joshua, if you were a skilled pvper you’d have made a godset right after 2hrs of playtime

    A new player might have skill but not the gear. I am a skilled PvPer but when i first came on i was completely destroyed bye guys in god gear. I do see your point though.

    </p>

    That is very interesting Volpex. Maybe you could write up a quick tutorial to show new players how to get form zero to god gear production in 2 hours. That would certainly be very helpful to them and many experienced players alike. Thanks.

    @oktacraft how long do you think it was till i had my first set :I (like an hour and 45 minutes)
    I’m just lazy xD

     

    Lucky you will be missed 🙁

    #53213

    In reply to: Unban request

    Xeron
    Blocked
    • Topics: 94
    • Replies: 650
    • Total: 744
    • ★★★★★★

    Alright.

    I would like to apologize for using an illegal texturepack…I can promise that i will never do anything illegal again

    I denied your other ban appeal for the same reason. There are no special rules for using xray or xray texturepacks – its a perm ban. Its in the rules – they’re there for a reason.

    J4ZZgr Kastoras xXCrusaderGr and VipeGod are my friends we play the server all together and there are more friends who would join the server aswell.. Its a pitty for them to stop playing because of me.. We play minecraft 5 years together and we will keep play together.. Please think of it a little more..

    Not my problem that your friends will stop playing because you were banned. Its a shame, yes, but you should have read the rules.

    And if there is a kind of ban appeal i could pay with money I will do it…I just dont wanna quit this server… And the fact that i am willing to pay you with real money means that i will never do anything illegal again because i am not silly to get banned again .

    You want to pay with real money to get unbanned? Er, no. If we would allow this, well… firstly it’s sad, secondly tonnes of people would just be paying to get unbanned on here as the same system would have to apply for them, and thirdly it isn’t a guarantee that you won’t do anything like that again. It shows willingness to join again, I’ll give you that, but at the end of the day it’s pay to win.

    Denied.

    « Build Team leader »
    « Server Admin »
    Crew History: Red Lotus, 0utlaws, Ottoman Empire, Xenon Empire, The Xanthian Order, The Asylum, Xenia
    @Xeron

    #53211

    In reply to: Unban request

    Markusi13
    Moderator
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 347
    • Total: 363
    • ★★★★★

    You were already denied twice now, if you keep making post we will delete your forum account.

    Also paying real life money won’t change anything.

    Appeal denied, topic closed.

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