suggestion: PVP rules when on ships

Tagged: Battles, Ship

This topic has 27 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 1 month ago by Yr mama.

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October 21, 2017 at 12:12 am #54084
Bislo
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I want to discuss this with you all and staff as I think it kinda ruins the ability or hinder very many players from sailing around the oceans. We all know the sad feeling of spending time building a ship and then setting sail just to be boarded by an invisible person and next second the ship is kaboom and tnt is flying all around, or is that just me?

Honestly, this is the way all my ships that has ever been sunk, has been sunk(also lighter, very realistic). so yeah, I’m just wondering if actual ship battle exist? do they? Apart from the arranged ones that is, because i know that we have made some events here and there and that’s great, but all the other time there is literally NO people on the oceans in self made ships and if there are then those individuals sure as all heck make sure they are invisible, because if they are not, then it does not take more than a few sec of map stalking from the “pirates” to conclude that we in fact have ourselves a ship on the ocean marked by the slow movement of a players name at sea.

and what comes next we all know. the “pirates” swim to the ship at sea, inventory prepped with tnt and sneaky sneaky, ship goes kaboom and the poor sailors didn’t even see it coming. Hahahahahah! oh boy this is fun! blow up ships for no apparent reason whatsoever.. But thats just how ships work on this server sadly, cuz it’s fun to ruin other people work with minimal effort.

anyway, i was thinking how to fix this, but there’s no mechanic that can fix this issue, so it really cannot be fixed. But maybe we could trial some rules that say you have to sink other ships with CANNONS? just a simple rule.. make it clear for all old and new players that they have to sink other ships with cannons. put the rule in the rules book and make it pop up in missive now and then, to remind everyone.

I think the rule would limit players the easiness of blowing ships up in seconds and for no reason at all, leaving the victims left with a feeling of “WTF happened?”. Boarding would still be a thing, but when you board a ship you very rarely bring a cannon along. so the ship would not be sunk, but rather stolen, which is much better in my opinion. It eliminates the need to just go and ruin someones day in the name of “hahahahha i blew up your ship cuz i can :D”.

honestly i think this type of destruction should fall under griefing, we have rules against destroying lands and whatnot for no reason, why not extend it to ships? – again i am talking about boarding someones ship and kabooming it with tnt, not actual ship to ship cannon blasts. This is what this server is about! ships, yet i see this crazy problem. I want more ships, ships chasing each other, ships visiting ports, ships battling. Move pvp more out on the oceans, but make the environment more regulated, because it needs to be.

Let me know what you think, maybe you have some other takes on what could be changed, or maybe you would like to keep blowing peoples ships up for no reason – If so, please let me know too so i know who you are and so i can sail when you are offline 🙂

Founder of Port Hope
October 21, 2017 at 1:56 am #54085
Jammin_Mas
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I like people who sail.

except people from BE.

so I wouldnt sail,

when im online.

A endermite kicked my ass
October 21, 2017 at 2:04 am #54086
JUSA
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Death to the Brits <3

Death to da Brits
Death to da Elves
Death to da Fruits

Heck..Death to Everyone 😀
October 21, 2017 at 3:50 am #54088
JoeDanger_
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Maybe travel invis or keep an eye out for enemies? or make it your ship cannot be boarded while sailing? I’m sure there’s plenty of simple solutions to this.

Founder of The Vikings
Founder of The Coalition
Founder of some other stuff
I don't know what else to put.
October 21, 2017 at 3:50 am #54089
Bazurka
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I like that idea @bilso1 . I think that would revive the sailing routes on the server.

Not sure if its possible to actually enact, but it would have my vote.

Baz

Proud Member of the Piratecraft history 🙂

https://minecraftskinstealer.com/achievement/3/Achievement+Get%21/PirateCraft+Regular
October 21, 2017 at 11:22 am #54093
Monks
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Also maybe make it impossible to let donators /top onto your ship? That would be nice aswell. :]

~ xMadMonkey ~

«Godfather of La Famiglia»

~ Mememaster since 1969 ~
October 21, 2017 at 11:37 am #54094
Bislo
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@JoeDanger_

Yeah I know the invis is a possibility and also atm. the only way of being half sure not to be boarded within secs of leaving port, but it should not be a necessity to stock half an inventory of invis potions if you’re gonna sail from one place to another..

Regardless of how boarding resistant you make your ship, it doesn’t stop other players from enderpearling on top it and kabooming it anyway.. I have nothing against boarding, but to board and to just kaboom is wasted time for everyone involved in my opinion and should honestly be put into the Greif category..

@bazurka

It would not be just a little fix and then bam. Thats true, It will require that admins police the law of only using cannons to sink other ships. I wouldn’t expect alot of problems if there was a rule in place, because then players would know that this is not fair, which it is not. problem is just that at the moment, the sea is free for all, no rules nothing at all. I think we could do something about that. It’s about moving focus from land to sea, which is where i assume we want this server to go, since we in fact have the ship plugin and are focused around piracy.
I don’t see it being a big task for admins to also be responsible for this new rule, it is just a rule like any other.. one that could improve the experience for alot of players alot and bring back the ships to life, so I really think it is worth a try.

It’s one of the sole reasons why ships don’t really work and always never did.. Make the rule that disallows players from attacking others at sea, unless they themselves get en a boat and aim their cannons – Just like the plugin is intended.

Get a freking boat and fight like a real pirate, or stay at land.. This rule should really be a possibility

Founder of Port Hope
October 21, 2017 at 12:36 pm #54095
Xeron
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Surely the Brits have enough fighters to defend a ship, no? There’s /near, as joe said invis, and crouching.
Furthermore, it would be very difficult to enforce this.

I mean, I love the idea and I wish it could be a real thing. But sadly ships are still very slow, very vulnerable to tnt, and other methods of transportation are still more viable such as vanilla boats and depth strider. We have in the past disabled fire spread after people complained about ships burning down (personally I’m not a fan, I’d prefer the fire tick to just be significantly reduced so that fire still poses a risk, but a much smaller one). We have also introduced new cannons, such as the 3-long iron cannon, and the 2 and 3-long coal cannons to give players more options.

My suggestion would be promoting the use of cannons, rather than setting restrictions on sinking ships. Make regular vanilla tnt much less powerful, if not almost fully disable the damage it does (keeping only the knockback and damage to players, so make it a sort of grenade). In addition, make rusty carronades available at cadet, and introduce a few more projectiles (make firework projectiles purely for penetration damage, zombie head projectile for giving players poison I for a few secs, firecharge projectile for starting 1 fire).

On top of this, the usual suggestion; make ships a little faster such as in cruise mode.

At the end of the day, you’re meant to have a crew for ye ship, to defend it!

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@Xeron
October 21, 2017 at 1:13 pm #54096
Kirn
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Yes i think ships should be a bit faster in cruise mode. And it would be better if you can make your ships faster by adding more sails. Like 15% of wool is normal speed, 20% a bit faster etc..

Keep you'r friends rich
and you'r enemies rich
and wait to find out which is which.
October 21, 2017 at 3:12 pm #54097
Crazy Pirate
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Xeron wrote:

Surely the Brits have enough fighters to defend a ship, no? There’s /near, as joe said invis, and crouching.

Frankly, there’s no way to defend a ship. If you’re not a donator, you don’t have /near, which means anyone can sneak onto your ship invis (using /top) without you knowing. Hell, even if you had /near, it takes the attacker one second to do /top and place some TNT, and if you’ve got a medium sized ship, he’s blown up the opposite end before you can take a step forward.
October 21, 2017 at 3:27 pm #54098
wiskey_waters
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well i dont mean to adveritse but there is a server i used to play on the way they solved this problem is that you have a bed with a sign saying crew: [your name], if you got killed on that ship then you would respawn near the bed and spawn with a sword and have invinsibality, speed and strength for a few seconds, any ways thats just one way to solve the problem.

royal navy shipwright
developer of advanced armour for ships
turns on hitboxes when pvping
October 21, 2017 at 5:14 pm #54100
Bislo
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Max I’m not talking about brits. I’m talking general. anyone who would like to sail a ship.

You say difficult, is there any reasons in particular, other than one more task to manage?

Founder of Port Hope
October 21, 2017 at 8:18 pm #54104
Blu Pearson
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This is a tough subject.

You cant toggle tnt explosions for specific areas or at all in the server properties.

Your able to do so with grief prevention but only in claims so once the ship leaves a claim it is no longer under the GP plugins properties.

Essentials has explosion toggles in the config but its either on or off everywhere on the server.

# General physics/behavior modifications.

prevent:

lava-flow: false

water-flow: false

water-bucket-flow: false

fire-spread: true

lava-fire-spread: true

flint-fire: false

lightning-fire-spread: true

portal-creation: false

tnt-explosion: false

tnt-playerdamage: false

tnt-minecart-explosion: false

tnt-minecart-playerdamage: false

fireball-explosion: false

fireball-fire: false

fireball-playerdamage: false

witherskull-explosion: false

witherskull-playerdamage: false

wither-spawnexplosion: false

wither-blockreplace: false

creeper-explosion: false

creeper-playerdamage: false

creeper-blockdamage: false

enderdragon-blockdamage: true

enderman-pickup: false

villager-death: false

Unfortunately there would need to be a custom plugin built that worked with movecraft to make tnt explosions disabled on a ship/craft that could somehow know the difference between what is a cannon explosion and a player initiated tnt explosion. Or fork the movecraft plugin and rebuild it with the ability to do this in the configs. Either way we would need a developer willing to to this for free.

The suggestion of tnt be considered griefing is good but would be really hard to enforce. There would need to be video proof that a specific player did the act otherwise its he said she said.Since most of the time the player is invisible you would need to punch them to get a name. But this could be done.

As for the ship speed, its based of 2 parameters in the config; cruiseSkipBlocks: (how many blocks the craft is teleported each time) too many and the ship has less maneuverability in tight spaces and speed: (how much time between teleportation events) too fast and the ship is uncontrollable as you cant click signs or maneuver between teleport events.

The speed is set to allow you to walk, set up cannons, fire cannons, etc.. any faster and you lose the ability to function while moving because of the constant block teleportation. So its a trade off you can go faster to get places and no combat or moving around the ship or slower with more ability to do things while sailing like combat. Its a balancing act.

Hope this helps shine some light on the situation.
October 21, 2017 at 10:24 pm #54105
Torkey
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to be honest as soon as you make it so that you are only able to blow up ships with cannons… it will be impossible to sink ships. I remember sailing once with shay and he had the ship set up so if anyone came onto his /near he could have the ship claimed in like 5 seconds and then it would be completly safe as if it was in a port.

Although i do see where you are comming from with the fact it is very hard to sail ships without them being sunk and i myself would love to be able to use my ship a lot more but if this was to be implemented i feel it would bring it from one extream to another and it would make sinking ships nearly impossible.

My main bit of advice is just have a crew with you when you are sailing, if it is a large boat normally (in real life) a ship of that size would have at least 5 people on it to sail it. If you have a few freinds on it with you it is actually really easily defendable expeccialy if one of them has /near, if not just have them look out over the sides to look for someone. If yous see someone either claim it or just get a few people to jump off and fight the person trying to blow it up.
October 22, 2017 at 1:25 am #54107
Bislo
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blu
I know this will be blown out of the sky, but remove TNT altogether from the game? we have cannons anyway.. what are tnt used for anyway other than grief?

The enforcement could be a hard thing to do.. I guess I was just thinking most players on here are playing fair and if there were rules against it then they might not do it, but yeah.. no
I think it might have some sort of preventive effect, but of course you will always have troublemakers, as with anything that can be abused.

turkey
I see, but if someone is chasing you and you claim the ship, then the ship is still stuck there.. so you can’t really run, yeah your ship is safe, but you can do this now too?

reason why no one gets sunk other than by the quick kaboom is because its the easiest way to do it right now. You go sneaky, no risk, just blow up a ship and hope kids will rage quit for your own enjoyment. If players actually invest time in how these mechanics are supposed to work, then I will bet you we will see some sinkings done properly.
Yes it will be harder, and thats the reason! Heck, I can sneaky kaboom a boat if I wanted, but its not fun?! its abuse of tnt and results in the ship mechanics not being used – cuz tnt does lots of damage and the attacker risk nothing.

Founder of Port Hope
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